And how is your militant Atheism not considered a religion (Details as belief as taught or discussed)?
The majority of Theists don't really give a shit as to what you believe or don't, and choose not to shove it down your throat on a personal level.
In my personal experience (I'm Agnostic) more Atheists give a shit about what I believe than Theists do, and are more prepared psychologically to debate me on the topic at 3am, half drunk, around a campfire.
And once I've given my point, about faith excluding logic (so there's no point in arguing with a Theist, if you're an Atheist), then they move onto 9/11 being an inside job and Bilderberg and Illuminati shit.
At least many of us can agree on carry permits, and personal freedoms.
But then they go back to the "then why don't you believe me about Bush and Clinton?"
Bullshit! I don't know how many times and in how many ways it needs to be said before it is understood. Not believing in god/s is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby. Any attempt to label Atheism a religion is merely an attempt to make us seem not so dissimilar. It is a weak argument made by fools. Atheists often want to spread atheism, just like Psychiatrists want to spread mental health. We care.
oh, and if people are discussing these things with you half drunk around a campfire, you need to move in more interesting circles and go to better parties ;)
If you want to spread mental health like a psychiatrist does, you're going to have to do it like a psychiatrist. Psychiatrists don't yell at their patients for being sick, no matter how absurd their delusions are. If they did that, they'd only make them sicker. In my opinion atheists on average are more bigoted than theists. At least theists have your best interests at heart, but atheists just look down on theists for being sick. Always remember that you could just as well have been in their position if you'd been brought up with religion. Also, remember that most religious people aren't extremists, just like most atheists aren't extremists.
Good post dr Vandamme. Many atheists feel they have to get back at, fight against religion. I agree that false beliefs are something that needs to go, but how we go about getting there is not so clear. Religious belief will be around for a long time no matter how we go about fighting it, even if we should. It obviously has some evolutionary advantage, filling a need in many people. Perhaps we should be working towards having religion evolve into something that lacks the damaging side that religion obviously has. After all, the need (for supernatural belief) will still be around in people even if some miracle happened and the current religions disappeared.
Atheists must recognize God's existence to deny it (atheism denies, agnosticism just doesn't care, correct me if I'm wrong), this is putting them amongst the true believers. No universal thruth here, just my 2¢, I think it's a point of view that deserves a thought.
So denying ANY god means that you MUST believe in them, eh?
SO - using that definition, no one could EVER not violate the First Commandment, which clearly states to not believe in other gods. If one doesn't believe in a god means you believe in them, then why'd your egotistical fairy-tale old man with a white robe & beard command you to not believe in them - which by YOUR argument proves you DO?
Come on - we'd just LOVE to hear more of your "logic".
I just found your stuff, and I dig what you said about militant athiests. I've been saying it to people for ages too; and I'm always amazed at how high and mighty they get when you say "That's great, but I don't believe you"... Suddenly the claws come out and there's a "need to prove your wrong for having faith in something"...
2+2≠5. It hasn't ever, doesn't now, or ever will. You can stamp your little foot and throw a temper tantrum and threaten to hold your breath until you pass out, but it always equals 4. You can't prove it equals 5, yet you persist in believing it, even after being shown physical proof that 2+2≠5.
It's the same with your delusional belief in god. You can't prove a deity exists, there's no evidence whatsoever that Jesus ever existed, nor can you explain why a belief in Jesus is better than a belief in Allah, or the Giant Space Turtle upon which the Earth rests, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. We're just like you - we don't believe in Zeus or Apollo or Athena, we just take it one more step and don't believe in YOUR myths, either.
NOW - the reason why we're militant is because look at it this way: A woman killed her children by smashing their heads in with a rock the size of a dinner plate. She said Jesus had told her to do it. Everyone admits that she is insane. George Bush told the world that Jesus told him to go to war with Iraq. Only atheists had the courage to call HIM just as insane, yet you Christians love him (hypocritically not caring about the over 100,000 Iraqi women and children that were slaughtered by us - yet bleating over the abortion of a few clumps of cells that haven't even differentiated yet).
SO - what religious belief makes a person insane then? BOTH the woman and Bush used their faith to justify MURDER and one is deemed insane and the other you have your tongue up his butt so far you can taste his tonsils.
BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO BE RULED OVER BY INSANE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN NON-EXISTENT BEINGS.
Society needs to be protected from insane people. You all need to be rounded up, tried to be cured and if not, culled from society and kept so that your cancerous thoughts don't infect innocents.
So many unnecessary shenanigans. What makes an atheist is, in my case at least, insight into how the world works. Once the pig picture is there, the concept of deities and faith in the supernatural is just absurd. People have said to me that I'll come around and see 'the lord', but the gap between faith and grasping reality is just so immense that there's no way that I could possibly 'come around', perhaps barring the 'god' appearing before me in person. But if that did happen, i'd be more inclined to commit myself to a mental hospital, because I know that some people are prone to hallucinate, as I have myself witnessed.
And how is your militant Atheism not considered a religion (Details as belief as taught or discussed)?
ReplyDeleteThe majority of Theists don't really give a shit as to what you believe or don't, and choose not to shove it down your throat on a personal level.
In my personal experience (I'm Agnostic) more Atheists give a shit about what I believe than Theists do, and are more prepared psychologically to debate me on the topic at 3am, half drunk, around a campfire.
And once I've given my point, about faith excluding logic (so there's no point in arguing with a Theist, if you're an Atheist), then they move onto 9/11 being an inside job and Bilderberg and Illuminati shit.
At least many of us can agree on carry permits, and personal freedoms.
But then they go back to the "then why don't you believe me about Bush and Clinton?"
because our belief is based on observation and evidence, not faith. atheism is reality, religions involve faith in a myth.
Deletereally? i've never had atheists come literature in hand to my home and knock on my door.
DeleteBullshit! I don't know how many times and in how many ways it needs to be said before it is understood. Not believing in god/s is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby. Any attempt to label Atheism a religion is merely an attempt to make us seem not so dissimilar. It is a weak argument made by fools.
DeleteAtheists often want to spread atheism, just like Psychiatrists want to spread mental health. We care.
You have absolutely no idea what the definition of "religion" is, do you Anne?
Deleteoh, and if people are discussing these things with you half drunk around a campfire, you need to move in more interesting circles and go to better parties ;)
ReplyDeleteI'm an atheist and most DEFINITELY anti-Scientology. However, I don't believe that Katie Holmes has ever uttered the statement above.
ReplyDeleteOf course, if the comment was a tongue-in-cheek one by someone else... :)
DeleteIf you want to spread mental health like a psychiatrist does, you're going to have to do it like a psychiatrist. Psychiatrists don't yell at their patients for being sick, no matter how absurd their delusions are. If they did that, they'd only make them sicker. In my opinion atheists on average are more bigoted than theists. At least theists have your best interests at heart, but atheists just look down on theists for being sick. Always remember that you could just as well have been in their position if you'd been brought up with religion. Also, remember that most religious people aren't extremists, just like most atheists aren't extremists.
ReplyDeleteGood post dr Vandamme. Many atheists feel they have to get back at, fight against religion. I agree that false beliefs are something that needs to go, but how we go about getting there is not so clear. Religious belief will be around for a long time no matter how we go about fighting it, even if we should. It obviously has some evolutionary advantage, filling a need in many people. Perhaps we should be working towards having religion evolve into something that lacks the damaging side that religion obviously has. After all, the need (for supernatural belief) will still be around in people even if some miracle happened and the current religions disappeared.
Delete"Theists have your best interests at heart."
DeleteTell that to ANYONE that religion has ever killed or tortured.
Moron.
Atheists must recognize God's existence to deny it (atheism denies, agnosticism just doesn't care, correct me if I'm wrong), this is putting them amongst the true believers.
ReplyDeleteNo universal thruth here, just my 2¢, I think it's a point of view that deserves a thought.
Atheists don't believe in any gods at all- one less god than most christians. Does denying Poseidon's existence mean that Poseidon must exist?
DeleteMy GAWD what an idiotic statement!
DeleteSo denying ANY god means that you MUST believe in them, eh?
SO - using that definition, no one could EVER not violate the First Commandment, which clearly states to not believe in other gods. If one doesn't believe in a god means you believe in them, then why'd your egotistical fairy-tale old man with a white robe & beard command you to not believe in them - which by YOUR argument proves you DO?
Come on - we'd just LOVE to hear more of your "logic".
Bat crap crazy is what you are.
I just found your stuff, and I dig what you said about militant athiests.
ReplyDeleteI've been saying it to people for ages too; and I'm always amazed at how high and mighty they get when you say "That's great, but I don't believe you"...
Suddenly the claws come out and there's a "need to prove your wrong for having faith in something"...
2+2≠5. It hasn't ever, doesn't now, or ever will. You can stamp your little foot and throw a temper tantrum and threaten to hold your breath until you pass out, but it always equals 4. You can't prove it equals 5, yet you persist in believing it, even after being shown physical proof that 2+2≠5.
DeleteIt's the same with your delusional belief in god. You can't prove a deity exists, there's no evidence whatsoever that Jesus ever existed, nor can you explain why a belief in Jesus is better than a belief in Allah, or the Giant Space Turtle upon which the Earth rests, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. We're just like you - we don't believe in Zeus or Apollo or Athena, we just take it one more step and don't believe in YOUR myths, either.
NOW - the reason why we're militant is because look at it this way: A woman killed her children by smashing their heads in with a rock the size of a dinner plate. She said Jesus had told her to do it. Everyone admits that she is insane. George Bush told the world that Jesus told him to go to war with Iraq. Only atheists had the courage to call HIM just as insane, yet you Christians love him (hypocritically not caring about the over 100,000 Iraqi women and children that were slaughtered by us - yet bleating over the abortion of a few clumps of cells that haven't even differentiated yet).
SO - what religious belief makes a person insane then? BOTH the woman and Bush used their faith to justify MURDER and one is deemed insane and the other you have your tongue up his butt so far you can taste his tonsils.
finishing up thought on why we're militant:
DeleteBECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO BE RULED OVER BY INSANE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN NON-EXISTENT BEINGS.
Society needs to be protected from insane people. You all need to be rounded up, tried to be cured and if not, culled from society and kept so that your cancerous thoughts don't infect innocents.
So many unnecessary shenanigans. What makes an atheist is, in my case at least, insight into how the world works. Once the pig picture is there, the concept of deities and faith in the supernatural is just absurd. People have said to me that I'll come around and see 'the lord', but the gap between faith and grasping reality is just so immense that there's no way that I could possibly 'come around', perhaps barring the 'god' appearing before me in person. But if that did happen, i'd be more inclined to commit myself to a mental hospital, because I know that some people are prone to hallucinate, as I have myself witnessed.
ReplyDelete